The illusion of shared reality: Why no two minds see the same world | Anil Seth & Jonny Thomson

Episode Overview

• This episode explores the nature of consciousness, arguing that it is intrinsically linked to biological life and the imperative for self-preservation, challenging the common "brain as a computer" metaphor.
• The conversation delves into the profound ethical dilemmas posed by neurotechnology, from the potential dangers of creating conscious AI with a will to survive to the privacy risks of emerging brain-reading technologies.
• The host and guest examine various philosophical frameworks for understanding the mind, including physicalism, dualism, and functionalism, while offering a pragmatic critique of panpsychism.
• Key distinctions are drawn between simulation and recreation, and the discussion concludes by exploring concepts like the embodied mind and a compatibilist view of free will.

Key Concepts

• Biology vs. Computation: The central argument that consciousness is deeply rooted in the processes of life, such as cellular self-preservation and regeneration, which are fundamentally different from how computers operate. This view challenges the "brain-as-computer" metaphor, which can obscure the unique properties of biological systems.
• The Beast Machine Theory: The hypothesis that consciousness evolved as a mechanism to support the biological imperative of staying alive, linking subjective experience directly to an organism's need for self-preservation.
• Philosophical Frameworks of Consciousness: An overview of major theories, including Physicalism (consciousness is a property of the physical world), Dualism (mind and matter are separate), Functionalism (consciousness arises from functional organization), and Panpsychism (consciousness is a fundamental property of all matter).
• Ethics of Neurotechnology: The dual concerns surrounding advancements in brain science, covering both the moral ambiguity and existential risk of creating artificial consciousness ("playing God") and the threat to personal privacy from brain-reading devices.
• Simulation vs. Recreation: The critical distinction that a simulation models the functions of a system, whereas a recreation embodies its underlying properties. Simulating a brain's processes on a computer is not the same as recreating the biological conditions that give rise to consciousness.
• Embodied Mind: The concept that the brain operates in constant interaction with the entire body, and this dialogue is crucial for conscious experience, rather than the brain being an isolated processor.
• Compatibilist Free Will: A view that defines the experience of free will as the brain's perception that an action's causes are internal rather than external, making the concept compatible with a deterministic, physicalist universe.

Quotes

• At 0:22 - "Why would you do that apart from the desire to play God?" - Anil Seth challenges the ethical and practical motivations behind the goal of creating a conscious AI.
• At 0:58 - "Real artificial consciousness, if that's not an oxymoron, might require real artificial life." - Anil Seth suggests that consciousness may be inseparable from the biological state of being alive.
• At 1:20 - "If we really think that is the thing, then we stop looking for what else might be there that marks a difference between brains and even the most powerful computers." - Anil Seth warns against the intellectual trap of confusing the brain-as-computer metaphor for a complete explanation.
• At 19:47 - "because once you get inside the skull, there's nowhere else left." - The speaker emphasizes the ultimate loss of privacy if brain-reading technology becomes widespread.
• At 21:01 - "So physicalism is the position that consciousness is a property of the physical world, of material stuff generally." - Providing a concise definition of physicalism, the dominant view in the science of consciousness.
• At 25:51 - "Panpsychism strikes me as not a very useful or productive way to think about things, even if it ultimately might be right." - The speaker shares his primary reservation about panpsychism—that it doesn't advance scientific understanding.
• At 43:38 - "Real brains aren't like that. And so there's a kind of through line... about how we understand what the brain is doing at a larger scale... and what it's doing at a much smaller scale of the business of actually staying alive." - The speaker explains his view that consciousness is intrinsically linked to the biological processes of life.
• At 44:36 - "Is that when things become dangerous?... programming an artificial intelligence with the desire to keep itself alive... suddenly becomes quite a dangerous prospect." - The interviewer raises the ethical and existential risks associated with creating an AI that has a will to survive.
• At 45:17 - "No one should be really be actively trying to create a conscious AI. It's like, why would you do that apart from the desire to play God? It's ethically very, very dubious indeed." - The speaker questions the moral basis for pursuing the creation of artificial consciousness.
• At 46:53 - "If we simulate a weather system, we do not expect it to actually get windy or start raining inside the computer." - In response to an audience question, the speaker distinguishes between simulating a brain and recreating consciousness.
• At 55:32 - "It doesn't assume an ego. It doesn't assume a self. It just assumes that there is some kind of conscious experience happening." - The speaker clarifies that the fundamental definition of consciousness—"what it is like to be"—does not require higher-order concepts.
• At 66:05 - "What we experience as free will is the brain's perception of the causes of the actions that it makes. And when the brain infers that the causes of an action come more from the inside... we experience them as freely willed." - The speaker offers a compatibilist definition of free will.

Takeaways

• Reframe your understanding of consciousness away from pure computation and toward its deep roots in biology and the fundamental drive for self-preservation.
• Be critical of powerful scientific metaphors; the "brain as a computer" analogy, while useful, can prevent deeper inquiry into what makes biological intelligence unique.
• Advocate for a moratorium or strong ethical oversight on research aimed at creating conscious AI, questioning the motivations and potential negative consequences of such a goal.
• Understand that simulating a brain's activity is not the same as recreating consciousness, just as simulating a storm doesn't make a computer wet.
• Push for robust ethical guidelines and privacy laws to govern neurotechnology, as brain-reading devices could eliminate the final frontier of personal privacy.
• Prioritize scientific theories of consciousness that are pragmatic and produce testable hypotheses over those that may be philosophically intriguing but offer no clear path for investigation.
• Adopt a compatibilist view of free will, seeing it not as a magical power but as the brain's crucial experience of agency when actions are perceived as internally generated.