Stop Ruining My Perfectly Good Bear Market | TCAF 226

T
The Compound Jan 23, 2026

Audio Brief

Show transcript
In this conversation, legendary investor Jeremy Grantham explores the career risks inherent in market bubbles and why the current economic stability may actually signal a looming crisis. There are three key takeaways from this discussion. First, the career risk paradox compels professional managers to participate in bubbles against their better judgment. Second, prolonged market stability inevitably breeds the reckless behavior that causes crashes. And third, the current AI boom exhibits a critical disconnect between massive infrastructure spending and actual realized revenue. The conversation begins by dissecting the investor's dilemma during a euphoria phase. There is a fundamental conflict between a manager's fiduciary duty to protect wealth and the career risk of underperforming a rising market. History shows that it is safer for a professional to lose money alongside the crowd than to be right but early against it. Because clients rarely have the patience for multi-year mean reversion, managers are forced to capitulate and buy overvalued assets. The data suggests that even when a bearish manager is eventually vindicated by a crash, the clients who left during the bull market almost never return. Next, the episode applies Hyman Minsky’s Financial Instability Hypothesis to the current economic environment. The core concept here is that stability is unstable. Long periods of calm in the markets do not signal safety; rather, they incentivize participants to become complacent and increase leverage. When volatility is low, investors feel emboldened to take on more risk, creating a fragile system where a minor disruption can trigger a major unwind. Therefore, the stability itself is the predictor of future volatility. Regarding the specific nature of the current market, the discussion identifies the AI cycle as a classic bubble structure. This definition is driven not just by high valuations, but by the lack of utility relative to capital expenditure. While the technology is real, companies are currently spending billions on infrastructure without yet proving they can generate sufficient revenue from those tools to justify the cost. Furthermore, the conversation argues that what investors currently label as high-quality stocks are often simply unregulated monopolies. A structural shift in the US economy since 1975 has decoupled wages from productivity. As a result, gains that once flowed to labor now flow almost exclusively to corporate profits. This allows major firms to maintain historically high margins that, in a truly competitive capitalist system, would otherwise be eroded by competition. Finally, despite a generally cautious market outlook, the discussion concludes with a contrarian optimism regarding resources. It suggests that a global collapse in birth rates, combined with the transfer of fracking technology to geothermal energy production, may inadvertently solve humanity's looming resource crisis. This serves as a reminder that while fighting a bull market is often a failing business strategy, distinguishing between genuine value and speculative mania remains the investor's most critical task.

Episode Overview

  • The investor's dilemma in a bubble: Explores the severe conflict between an investor's fiduciary duty to protect wealth and the career risk of underperforming during a euphoria phase, explaining why most managers capitulate to bubbles.
  • The structural shift in the economy: Analyzes how the U.S. economy moved from a "shared wealth" model (1945-1975) to a "capital-first" model (1975-present), resulting in stagnant wages, record-high corporate margins, and monopoly power.
  • Why stable markets are dangerous: Applies Minsky's Financial Instability Hypothesis to show how prolonged periods of stability inevitably breed the reckless behavior that causes crashes.
  • The specific nature of the AI bubble: Defines the current AI boom not just by high valuations, but by the massive disconnect between infrastructure spending (buying chips) and realized revenue (making profits from those chips).
  • Future outlook on humanity and resources: Concludes with a surprisingly optimistic look at how declining global birth rates and "accidental" breakthroughs in green energy (like geothermal) might solve humanity's resource crisis.

Key Concepts

  • Time Horizon Mismatch: There is a fundamental disconnect between value investing (which relies on multi-year mean reversion) and client psychology (which reacts to short-term performance). "Permabears" are often technically correct about valuations but lose their jobs because bubbles can persist for years longer than a client's patience allows.
  • The "Career Risk" Paradox: In a bubble, it is safer for a professional money manager to lose money with the crowd than to be right (but early) against the crowd. Managers who exit bubbles early often get fired for underperforming the benchmark, and—crucially—clients rarely return even after the manager is vindicated by a crash.
  • Minsky’s Instability Hypothesis: "Stability is unstable." Long periods of calm in the markets cause participants to become complacent and increase leverage. Therefore, stability itself is the predictor of future volatility because it incentivizes the risk-taking that creates a crisis.
  • Anatomy of the AI Bubble: A classic bubble is defined not just by price, but by a lack of realized utility relative to capital expenditure. The current AI cycle involves massive spending on infrastructure (like Nvidia chips) by companies that have not yet proven they can generate sufficient revenue from that infrastructure to justify the cost.
  • Quality as Monopoly Power: What investors call "quality" stocks (high margins, stable returns, low debt) are often actually unregulated monopolies. The failure of anti-trust enforcement has allowed these companies to maintain abnormal profits that, in a truly competitive capitalist system, would have been eroded by competition.
  • The Decoupling of Wages and Profits: Since 1975, the link between productivity and wages has broken. Productivity gains now flow almost exclusively to corporate profits rather than labor wages. This structural shift explains why corporate margins have remained historically high and why the "mean reversion" of margins that value investors expect hasn't happened.
  • Demographic "Ice Age" & Energy: A rapid, global collapse in birth rates acts as a deflationary force and a potential solution to resource scarcity. Combined with new energy technologies (like converting fracking tech to geothermal energy), this creates a path for "infinite cheap green energy" and human survival despite poor long-term planning.

Quotes

  • At 0:03:25 - "Whenever you have a long drawn-out bull market, it spends several years above trend value... almost 20 years... That's far too long for anyone to imagine anything else other than rising stock prices." - Explaining why investors normalize overvaluation and reject cautionary advice.
  • At 0:05:01 - "The great bubbles don't get to be great by dint of going over normal for six months. They spend, like Japan, year after year going from high to very high to oh-my-god high." - Defining the structural nature of historic market bubbles.
  • At 0:08:30 - "In my mind, it's 'The music's playing, I've got to keep dancing, but I don't have to keep dancing with the crap.' At least if I'm going to go over the cliff, I'm going to dance off the cliff with Coca-Cola." - Describing the psychological shift in late-stage bubbles where investors move from speculative assets to quality stocks before the crash.
  • At 0:17:11 - "My own time horizon interest barely overlaps with anything in the market... It's a very bad characteristic for a money manager to be so out of sync with what is moving the market. It's not good for clients, nor the manager." - A candid confession regarding the difficulty of managing money when your analytical timeline is decades long.
  • At 0:20:00 - "Stability is unstable... If it's really stable, you take more risk. If it's still stable, you take even more risk. Why shouldn't you? ... And then eventually, when a bump in the road arrives, everyone is taking too much risk." - Summarizing Hyman Minsky’s theory on why financial crises are inevitable outcomes of stable periods.
  • At 0:23:00 - "This is hell... You can never give people enough of what's working... You don't get fired for underperforming on the downside. No one gets fired by the way, they become paralyzed... But in a bull market... you cannot stand your neighbor getting rich." - Explaining the psychological torture and envy that drives investor behavior during a bubble.
  • At 0:24:31 - "It's not a viable business strategy to fight the great bull markets. You can't do it, and no one does it. You have to be somewhat free of career risk." - On why almost all professional managers eventually capitulate and join the bubble.
  • At 0:41:15 - "We made money in 2000, 2001, and 2002... market is down 50% and we've made cumulatively maybe 35%. [Did] people who abandoned you come back? Not one. Nobody. Not one solitary person." - Illustrating that being proven right does not repair the business relationships lost by being early.
  • At 0:42:25 - "I completely get it. It's like selling a stock at 3 and buying it back at 12. Humans can't do it... Someone else has to do it for you." - Explaining why retail investors and clients physically cannot reverse their mistakes after panicking.
  • At 0:49:25 - "The bubble is not in the P/E... The bubble is in the fact that they have bought millions of these ultra-expensive chips on which they have not yet made a buck. That is a classic, classic bubble." - Distinguishing between Nvidia's legitimate success and the speculative bubble of its customers.
  • At 0:51:28 - "In order to [raise profit margins], you have to squeeze individuals. You have to squeeze regular income. And what has been happening in the 21st century... is the share of money going to average Joe hasn't moved." - On the macroeconomic reality that high stock returns have come at the expense of labor wages.
  • At 1:01:09 - "Monopoly is the very essence of profit margin. What is our definition of quality? Stable high return and no debt. And why is it that? It's because that's a workable definition of monopoly. You're a price setter." - Explaining why high-quality stocks are often just companies with unchecked market power.
  • At 1:09:44 - "If you look at the number of poor people who can't pay their auto loans, they're defaulting at an abnormally high rate in a strong economy. Why? Because they're not the part of the strong economy. They are the excluded part of the economy." - Identifying the "cracks" in the current economic system hidden by aggregate data.
  • At 1:18:12 - "If you wanted to survive as a species in a world where we're living beyond our means, what you need is fewer people... and infinite cheap green energy. And frankly... we might get both." - Grantham’s ultimate optimistic conclusion regarding the convergence of demographic decline and energy technology.

Takeaways

  • Acknowledge the psychological cost of "tracking error": When building a portfolio, understand that deviating significantly from the market (even if you are right) is emotionally painful. Ensure you have the mental fortitude to endure underperformance during a bubble, or you will capitulate at the worst moment.
  • Mix "candy" with strategy: If you manage money for others (or yourself), do not build a "pure" academic portfolio that avoids all bubble assets. You must hold some popular assets to mitigate FOMO and ensure you stay invested long enough for your long-term strategy to work.
  • Watch for the "divergence" signal: A key sign that a bubble is ending is when speculative high-flyers crash while blue-chip stocks continue to rise. This indicates investors are getting scared but are afraid to leave the market entirely.
  • Be wary of the "efficiency" trap: Recognize that periods of high market stability are often the most dangerous times to add leverage. When the market feels safest, the hidden risks are usually at their peak.
  • Evaluate AI investments by revenue, not hype: When assessing AI companies, look past the capital expenditure (buying chips) and focus on whether they are generating actual revenue from those tools. The bubble exists in the gap between spending and earning.
  • Understand the "Monopoly Premium": Recognize that when you buy "high quality" stocks with stable margins, you are betting on the continuation of weak anti-trust enforcement. Any regulatory shift against monopolies poses a major risk to these valuations.
  • Monitor consumer credit cracks: Don't just look at top-line GDP or stock market highs; watch delinquency rates on auto loans and credit cards among lower-income tiers. These are the early warning signs of economic weakness that aggregate data hides.
  • Look for cross-industry tech transfers: For long-term opportunities, look for industries where existing skills are being reapplied to new problems—specifically the transfer of oil/gas drilling technology (fracking) to geothermal energy production.