Ep 16. POSTMODERN CHRISTIANITY A conversation with Dale Martin 3

Episode Overview

• The discussion explores a "postmodern" approach to Christian faith, arguing that belief can be meaningful without depending on historical or scientific literalism.
• It delves into the personal nature of faith versus its public expression, with Professor Dale Martin explaining his belief as a personal gift rather than a universal argument.
• The speakers critique specific Christian doctrines, particularly the concept of Hell, which the host finds personally insulting, and the practice of evangelism, which Martin argues against from a Pauline perspective.
• The conversation highlights the challenge of historical anachronism, noting that modern concepts like "religion" and the "supernatural" can distort our understanding of ancient texts and worldviews.

Key Concepts

• Paul as Inventor vs. Adapter: The debate over whether Paul created new Christian doctrines or simply adapted existing Jewish apocalyptic traditions to suit the needs of early Christian communities.
• Postmodern Faith: An anti-foundationalist approach to Christianity where theological claims are understood to operate within a different "context of rationality" than historical or scientific claims.
• Faith as a Gift: The Pauline theological concept that faith is not a product of human reason or choice but is a "charisma" or a gift of grace from God.
• Personal vs. Public Faith: The distinction between a belief that holds personal meaning for an individual and one that is presented as a rational, universal truth for others to adopt.
• Critique of Evangelism and Hell: A critical examination of doctrines like evangelism and eternal damnation, questioning their theological basis and moral implications.
• Anachronism and Historical Understanding: The challenge of interpreting ancient texts without projecting modern categories and concepts (like "religion" or the "supernatural") onto them.

Quotes

• At 4:36 - "It seems to me, to be a serious Christian, you just have to go hard postmodernist and say there is the theology of resurrection and salvation, which we're committing to on a separate basis because the historical origins of it are kind of fascinating but weird." - The host framing the central challenge for modern believers.
• At 11:47 - "Why do I have faith? Because God gave me the grace to have faith... it's a charisma... you can't take credit for your own faith in Paul's theology." - Professor Martin articulating his personal theological reason for his belief, framing it as a divine gift.
• At 21:49 - "We have to have Israel to be the root for Gentiles like me to be able to claim to be a part of the branch." - Professor Martin explaining his theological reasoning for why Christians should not try to convert Jews.
• At 23:11 - "I am such a morally depraved human being that a good and wise and just being, the only fate they could see for me would be to be tortured for all time until the end of time." - The host articulating the profound personal insult he feels when confronted with the doctrine of Hell.
• At 27:28 - "You could even say maybe has done more harm in the world than good." - Professor Dale B. Martin, a Christian theologian, conceding that the historical impact of Christianity could be viewed negatively from an empirical standpoint.

Takeaways

• A modern, intellectually coherent faith may require separating theological truth from scientific or historical literalism, operating with different "contexts of rationality."
• Certain religious doctrines, such as Hell, are not merely abstract ideas but can be deeply personal and offensive, creating significant barriers to dialogue.
• To genuinely understand ancient religious texts, one must be aware of historical anachronism and avoid imposing modern concepts onto past worldviews.
• Faith can be approached as a personal conviction that does not require public justification, proselytization, or the need for others' approval.